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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 6:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

Why, we are the Charmin of the Forums, soft and cuddly as a baby's teddy bear...of course, there's the occasional bout with colic, but once he's burped, CLIFF generally recovers nicely from that...and Rob's sometimes a tad cranky if his pampers have been snuggled up a bit too tight, but overall, we are as coo-cooing a bunch of little babies as can be imagined. And when I am feeling a little irritable from Troll Rash, there's always Miss D around with a soothing word--which is nice, cause frankly, I'd rather leave the whole fish oil as balm to seafaring likes of jgl and mando...

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Poster: skies Date: Nov 4, 2009 6:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

Co oingcharmin of the forum , you , Cliff and Scotty ? Cuddle bears ? With bristles n needles , maybe ! Such conceit on how nice you all are , is baffling !But there is so much worse in this world , well ,we can endure daily your neverending coversations .

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 4, 2009 7:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Take only as directed

That's right...but be warned: the FDA has declared that enduring our conversations has been shown to cause irritable bowl syndrome in chimps.

Metamucil or CLIFF's patented Shark Oil Cure All do help with this condition.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 7:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

You couldn't resist, could you?

Made me laugh anyway.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 7:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

Then my work is done here...

Great to see LiA chime in on the TC thread...knew he'd covered it before, but still thought a handful of us had some novel insights, not to mention fun, with that one.

What's enjoyable about these "detective" + "inference" style analytic threads is precisely the interplay between those two aspects. Unlike some issues, the TC thread shows how good detective work (ie, you putting together the timeline on TC, albums, etc.) can provide key info vis-a-vis a set of inferences (ie, "mine" with respect to suggestions of what happened when in 68 re: development of the suites). Instead of it being nothing but speculation & guesswork as to motivations, etc., we can uncover critical tidbits that better inform our analysis.

Don't mean to be making too much of the analysis of the analysis of a long dead band, but adding that to the mix of a bunch of old established forum friends keeps things interesting around here, eh?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 8:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: speculations and digressions

I agree it was all pretty enjoyable building up some sort of semi-coherent picture between the idle speculators and the industrious researchers - fun for all concerned I think. The Scientological digression provided a great deal of amusement too. I really like these threads that start out fairly sensible and then just fan out in all kinds of unpredictable directions. You recall Earl's Jerry poll a couple of weeks ago? It's definitely those things that keep you sticking your head round the door day after day to see what's going on in here.

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Poster: TrumpetHead Date: Nov 3, 2009 12:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

finally...

you can't possibly call terrapin "melodramatic" if you know a damn thing about drama...

it is clearly FAR too complex of a story with characters exhibiting and dynamically devloping both positive and negative traits, with both admirable and evil character traits and faults inherent. I suppose if you compared the occurrences in (wildly simplified) the "first stanza" to the the occurrences in the "last stanza," if you will, a small indicator of melodrama may be inferred, but errantly; I guess you could call it "metadramatic" due to its dynamic, up-and-down feel throughout the piece, but ABSOLUTELY not "melodramatic." dont use words you dont understand.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 12:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

You really think I don't understand "melodramatic"?

One could use the term to refer to StSt, my fav tune, for crying out loud..."one man gathers what another man spills" is by defn, "melodramatic"

Here we go: "exaggerated and emotional or sentimental; sensational or sensationalized; overdramatic."

You going to sit there and tell me that Terrapin ain't EXACTLY the above defn of "melodramatic"?

Terrapin is in fact, by Hunter's own allusions, "over-written" and "overly complex"...

It does not compare favorably with his earlier writings among critics of prose/poetry...where he goes too far, in my view, is in attempting a defn "story"...

Hunter does best when keeping it short and sweet.

If there is one thing I have a resonable understanding of, though often forsaking it here, it is the English language, so I don't think that's the issue...

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Poster: TrumpetHead Date: Nov 3, 2009 4:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

WT: I was referring to the technical definiton of "melodrama" as far as one of the four distinct patterns of dramatic action is concerned. of course, a simpleton's dictionary definition will always miss the point.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 5:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry, but the general public agrees about melodrama...

Oh great--get the defn you want, from an established source (mine was Websters), post it here and defend yourself...

So far, you're not doing well in that regard. I put some below for you to ponder...common usage my friend, common usage...

Oh, this is too funny--check this out for addt'l sorts that find TS "melodramatic" (no, I am not making this up, nor am I the reviewer, Doug Collete):

"Given the ingenuous nature of this band, it's perhaps little surprise that one of their most pure instances of inspiration—Garcia and lyricist Robert Hunter's near-simultaneous creative epiphany giving birth to "Terrapin Station"—would end up one of their most seriously tainted projects. For this, their first record for Arista---founded by the archetypal record mogul Clive Davis as an expatriate of behemoth Columbia Records—Grateful Dead deferred to producer Keith Olsen, fresh off his mammoth success with Fleetwood Mac, who orchestrated stings and vocal choir for this epic piece; a tighter more concise arrangement, emphasizing the spaces between the pieces of the suite rather than filling those spaces, would've been much preferable. The melodrama on the studio version is almost laughable, especially given what the band, even so recently as this summer, was able to do with the piece in concert, and the fact that melodrama is virtually alien to this group that brought new meaning to the word understatement."

This post was modified by William Tell on 2009-11-04 01:57:26

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 4:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

Just to assist you, here are multiple defn's of the term:

ONE:
"1.
a. A drama, such as a play, film, or television program, characterized by exaggerated emotions, stereotypical characters, and interpersonal conflicts.
b. The dramatic genre characterized by this treatment.

2. Behavior or occurrences having melodramatic characteristics."

TWO:

"A dramatic form characterized by excessive sentiment, exaggerated emotion, sensational and thrilling action, and an artificially happy ending. Melodramas originally referred to romantic plays featuring music, singing, and dancing, but by the eighteenth century they connoted simplified and coincidental plots, bathos, and happy endings. These melodramatic traits are present in Gothic novels, western stories, popular films, and television crime shows."

THREE:

"A dramatic work with a musical setting where the dialogue is spoken - for the duration of the work or for certain scenes only. Many operas have melodramatic scenes of this kind."

FOUR:

"1. (noun) melodrama
formerly, a kind of drama having a musical accompaniment to intensify the effect of certain scenes. Now, a drama abounding in romantic sentiment and agonizing situations, with a musical accompaniment only in parts which are especially thrilling or pathetic. In opera, a passage in which the orchestra plays a somewhat descriptive accompaniment, while the actor speaks; as, the melodrama in the gravedigging scene of Beethoven's "Fidelio"..."

Looks like I have a point, eh TH?



This post was modified by William Tell on 2009-11-04 00:30:01

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Poster: TrumpetHead Date: Nov 3, 2009 6:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

hehe

i hope you didnt spend too much time on this

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 7:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

It's what I do--I suppose you actually have to think about each post, eh?

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Nov 4, 2009 7:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

Quit being so damn melodramatic




Arrow Boy


hehehehehehe

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 4, 2009 7:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

Well, it's nice to see someone actually reads this drivel! I was worried there for a bit--maybe I actually didn't know the defn of melodramatic.

But, as Woody Allen would say, "melodramatic is my bread and butter...my various breads and butters..."

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 1:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

Besides being something of a drama queen what qualifies you to hold forth? Terrapin IS melodramatic - full of overblown emotions and stereotypical characters. Shorn of the music it is banal in the extreme, derivative and full of cliched imagery. Its success is entirely down to Garcia's setting.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 3, 2009 1:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

And while we are on the subject, I must say that Terrapin is one those tunes I could really do without seeing live EDIT: as often as I did. The studio version is outstanding, but as a live tune it just doesn't do it for me. Way too structured and predictable for my tastes (in terms of what I would rather see at a show...or would have rather seen, to be more chronologically accurate). Plus you add on the stress the tune puts on Jerry's vocals, it could, and often did, become somewhat of a train wreck at times as Jerry struggled to hit the high ones. There were times at that particular juncture I swear I could see the Ghost of Cat Mangler's Past arise from behind the stage and look down upon the old man as if to say "OK, maybe not a good ol' Donna PITB spine wrencher, but not bad, not bad at all".

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2009-11-03 21:22:46

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 1:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

OK - let's cut to the chase and stop being so gentlemanly and reticent about this. Terrapin sucks the big one. It is pedestrian in the extreme and of interest only to the fundamentally naive and intellectually gullible for whom Dan Brown stands alone as the most insightful writer of our generation.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 3, 2009 1:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

"...pedestrian in the extreme and of interest only to the fundamentally naive and intellectually gullible for whom Dan Brown stands alone as the most insightful writer of our generation"

Out-freakin'-standing

For me, the only thing comprable to Jerry singing Terrapin in the later years would be a Puberty-ridden Peter Brady reciting, er, screeching passages from "Angels and Demons".

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2009-11-03 21:55:05

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 1:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

Come on, man - you have to curb these anal-perfectionist post-modifying tendencies of yours.

:-)

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 3, 2009 2:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

Nah. You just wish Dan Brown would do some editing on the same scale.

HAH! I will not be restricted!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyooALwfxO8

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2009-11-03 22:22:55

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 2:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

All I can say is, it is amusing that the first ever "defend William Tell!" thread was hijacked just when I was starting to feel good about myself again...tragic, really.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

You're just an unreconstructed egomaniac - this was never about you, you ancient blatherer.

Still, have to say you're quicker on the draw than that young eedjit trumpethead. (Is that a blowjob euphemism I haven't heard yet?)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

Clafification: my dad, who was one to recite this now and again when I was but a youth (F-W, above) always pronounced it "eejdit" and thus...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

"Do you like Kipling, ma'am?"
"Why, sir, I don't believe I've ever kippled."

Wonderful stuff, WT! Did yer auld faither have a brogue?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

An Irish one at that (of course, you knew that), and in spite of what the brits did to "us" (as he would always say), he had a real fondness for the military poets of the late 19th cent. Many a time, nursing some injury of sorts, while I was waiting to go to the doc, he would sooth my soul with renditions of various epic tales (charge of light brigade, fuzzy, gunga, etc.).

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 4:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

Old Kipling had his finger on the pulse and is still pretty relevant today. I think people across the pond have the same difficulties we do in reconciling deep respect for the troops on the ground in Afghanistan with despising the politicians who put them there. Kipling had something to say about that too:

If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Soldier of the Queen!

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Poster: TrumpetHead Date: Nov 3, 2009 4:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

rofl this is just too easy

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 4:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

Too easy for what? For you to masturbate yourself into a state of self-absorbed delight? You need to do better than that, Onanette.

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Poster: TrumpetHead Date: Nov 3, 2009 6:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

whatever flips your skirt, man :)

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Poster: skangster Date: Mar 27, 2011 8:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

http://irishbitz.net your one and only stop for irish torrents

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

OMG--pardon the webesque exclamation, but this is all I can think of after that:

"'E rushes at the smoke when we let drive,
An', before we know, 'e's 'ackin' at our 'ead;
'E's all 'ot sand an' ginger when alive,
An' 'e's generally shammin' when 'e's dead.
'E's a daisy, 'e's a ducky, 'e's a lamb!
'E's a injia-rubber idiot on a spree,
'E's the on'y thing that doesn't give a damn
For a Regiment o' British Infantree!

So 'ere's to you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, at your 'ome in the Soudan;
You're a pore benighted 'eathen but a first-class fightin' man..."

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Nov 3, 2009 2:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In defense of Terrapin

During Froggy Jerry years, it could be a fun moment when the whole auditorium screamed along with TERRAPIN! And then they would just crush and shake the roof. Sure, the lyrics may not withstand deep literary analysis but on a head full of whatever and good friends it was a hell of a lot better than the obligatory Don't Ease/Might As Well 1st set closer or lame Chuck Berry cover to ease us in to a Day Job/US Blues' encore.

So, NA! (sha na?)

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In defense of Terrapin

In 89 they were getting pretty Yes-ish with all the synth and midi technology and Terrapin was better for it.

Check out this one......

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1989-12-06.sbd.miller.tetzeli.fix-14917.33821.reflac.flac16

Ooooh! Celebrate good times, c'mon!!(A's win)

This post was modified by high flow on 2009-11-03 23:17:16

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In defense of Terrapin

"In 89 they were getting pretty Yes-ish with all the synth and midi technology"


That's incitement to pitchforks and burning windmills, young flow!

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In defense of Terrapin

Riot if you must. I call them as I see them.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In defense of punk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_hM1dtRolY

Really, watching this makes me want to search and destroy...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In defense of punk

This will get rid of that bad taste

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91rAHIb8BwY

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In defense of Terrapin

Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye
[repeat many times and fade out]

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In defense of Terrapin

See, you do know about US sporting events.

In turn, we owe over the pond for Queen's ubiquitous "We Are The Champions" blaring over the stadium p.a. system

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 3:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In defense of Terrapin

Does anyone get royalties for that ta-da-da-ra-ta-ra organ riff they always play at ice hockey matches?

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Nov 3, 2009 2:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

At least Peter didn't turn out like Greg:
http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/5/The-Real-Greg-Brady-286881.html

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Poster: TrumpetHead Date: Nov 3, 2009 4:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

that's interesting, i don't like the studio version much at all (although "at a siding" is intriguing); even as RH (and quite possibly jerry as well) felt, terrapin was recorded and finished to soon w/o the proper development, because it had to be shipped off so the producer could "gussy it up with strings"

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 3, 2009 4:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

"even as RH (and quite possibly jerry as well) felt, terrapin was recorded and finished to soon."

Is there an interview in which RH relates his feelings about the recording of Terrapin? I'd like to read or hear that.

As for Jerry, I don't think he was ever truly satisfied with the band's studio efforts. I recall Jerry mentioning Mars Hotel as his favorite studio album.

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Poster: Dust_E Date: Nov 3, 2009 5:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

So what hasn't been performed? I would love to have a stab at it. :=)

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Poster: TrumpetHead Date: Nov 3, 2009 11:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

http://www3.clearlight.com/~acsa/introjs.htm?/~acsa/songfile/JACKOROS.HTM

Here is note 1 after the lyrics:

[(1) In his journal for 12 June 2003, Hunter explained: "Jack O'Roses ... is a Garcia composition, one he never played. Not because he didn't like it, but he was never keen to add lyric parts to a song already recorded. I always felt "Terrapin" was recorded too soon, there was much more to do on it. But recording company pressures dictated that our contributions to the album be done by a certain date so that the producer could take it off to London and gussy it up with strings."]

We could confirm this with a check into hunter's journals, which are no longer on his website. I think they are on the internet somewhere, as I recall reading a number of them looking for traces of rare terrapin performances. Who knows, though.

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Poster: Misty Eastwood Date: Nov 3, 2009 5:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say... "No Quarter"

I'm still wondering about the "Limited Number" edition of "Terrapin Station" I purchased like 10 years ago just to see it for sale again @ dead.net. Maybe rhino decided moving Terrapin to Vegas where Phil's liver transplants will be cheaper (according to Bill Walton's Chinese Girlfriend) closer to the Excalibur.

"The Bottle Was Dusty, But Like Liqueur was clean"

BOBO = 18yr old Single Barrel

RIP BOBO


..... come on Phil, "we are still waiting."

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 1:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

Well, this is what good friends are for..."piling on" as we sports buffs are wont to say...("wont" now there's a nice word, though a bit melodramatic methinks).

But, I know you both spoke from your own anti-Terrapin hearts...

So, I won't take it personally, though I still would like to...

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 3, 2009 1:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

Rob has a heart?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 2:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

I can smell it from here.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 3, 2009 1:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OK, just shoot me now, but I've just gotta say...

It's a damn ugly rumour and I'll deny it to my last breath.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 3, 2009 1:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The COMPLETE Terrapin Station Suite- All 9 Tracks- Help Needed

Just make sure you see this:

"...Ghost of Cat Mangler's Past arise from behind the stage and look down upon the [fat?] old man as if to say "OK, maybe not a good ol' Donna PITB spine wrencher, but not bad, not bad at all"..."

We just might have to put the whole frickin thing in the Forumiations Phrase Book, edition 4.

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